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storm_norm
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1741
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 Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 3:48 am Post subject: MM 1377 april 17, 2009 |
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| Code: | . 2 .|. . .|6 9 .
. . .|. . 7|5 . .
. 8 .|. 1 .|. . .
-----+-----+-----
1 . .|7 . .|. . .
9 . .|2 . .|. 5 3
. . .|. 5 4|. . 1
-----+-----+-----
. . .|. 4 .|. 2 .
. . 4|3 8 .|. . .
. 6 5|. . .|. 8 . |
enjoy !! |
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tlanglet
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 2468
Location: Northern California Foothills
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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I started this puzzle with my normal sequence of single digit steps and then bivalues steps, but no luck. It was time for chains (which I am not good at), or to go fishing (since wapati has got me interested in the sport with his recent posts).
I hooked a BIG ONE; a finned jelly fish on <7> in r1357c1379 with the fin at r7c2 that deletes <7> at r8c1. After cleanup, a BUG+1 or a xy-wing completes the puzzle.
Ted  |
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storm_norm
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1741
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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ted, nice.
but you will probably kick yourself for missing the finned x-wing in columns 2 and 7 on candidate 7
| Code: | .------------------.------------------.------------------.
| 457 2 1 | 45 3 8 | 6 9 47 |
| 346 39 369 | 469 2 7 | 5 1 8 |
| 4567 8 679 | 4569 1 569 | 247 3 247 |
:------------------+------------------+------------------:
| 1 5 68 | 7 9 3 | 28 4 26 |
| 9 4 78 | 2 6 1 | 78 5 3 |
| 367 *37 2 | 8 5 4 | 9 *67 1 |
:------------------+------------------+------------------:
| 8 *1379 379 | 1569 4 569 | 137 2 5679 |
|2-7 *179 4 | 3 8 2569 | 17 *67 5679 |
| 23 6 5 | 19 7 29 | 134 8 49 |
'------------------'------------------'------------------' |
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keith
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3355
Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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How about the extended W-wing?
| Code: | +----------------+----------------+----------------+
| 457 2 1 | 45 3 8 | 6 9 47 |
| 346 39 369 | 469 2 7 | 5 1 8 |
| 4567 8 679 | 4569 1 569 | 247 3 247 |
+----------------+----------------+----------------+
| 1 5 68 | 7 9 3 | 28 4 26 |
| 9 4 78 | 2 6 1 | 78 5 3 |
|-367 37% 2 | 8 5 4 | 9 67@ 1 |
+----------------+----------------+----------------+
| 8 1-379 379 | 1569 4 569 | 137 2 5679 |
| 27# 179 4 | 3 8 2569 | 17 67@ 5679 |
| 23# 6 5 | 19 7 29 | 134 8 49 |
+----------------+----------------+----------------+ |
The cells # are a pseudocell <37> in C1 and B7 that makes a pincer on <3> with %. The strong link is marked @.
Then, an XY-wing or a BUG+1 finishes it off.
Keith
Last edited by keith on Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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storm_norm
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1741
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| Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| keith wrote: | How about the extended W-wing?
| Code: | +----------------+----------------+----------------+
| 457 2 1 | 45 3 8 | 6 9 47 |
| 346 39 369 | 469 2 7 | 5 1 8 |
| 4567 8 679 | 4569 1 569 | 247 3 247 |
+----------------+----------------+----------------+
| 1 5 68 | 7 9 3 | 28 4 26 |
| 9 4 78 | 2 6 1 | 78 5 3 |
|-367 37% 2 | 8 5 4 | 9 67@ 1 |
+----------------+----------------+----------------+
| 8 1-379 379 | 1569 4 569 | 137 2 5679 |
| 27# 179 4 | 3 8 2569 | 17 67@ 5679 |
| 23# 6 5 | 19 7 29 | 134 8 49 |
+----------------+----------------+----------------+ |
The cells # are a pseudocell <37> in C1, the make a pincer on <3> with %. The strong link is marked @.
Then, an XY-wing or a BUG+1 finishes it off.
Keith |
nice.
that w-wing uses some of the finned x-wing cells, good catch. |
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keith
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3355
Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:36 am Post subject: |
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Ted, Norm:
Might y'all be talking about the same thing?
We know that all n-fish have a complement that is at most a 9-n fish. For example, if you have a swordfish in the rows, there will be an X-wing, swordfish, jelly fish ... in the columns that makes the same eliminations.
Is the same true of finned fish? Is Ted's finned jellyfish the same as Norm's finned X-wing, in that it makes the same eliminations?
=> Do finned fish have complements?
(I don't fish. I find that, beyond X-wings, coloring is just fine.)
Keith |
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storm_norm
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1741
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| Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:42 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Is the same true of finned fish? Is Ted's finned jellyfish the same as Norm's finned X-wing, in that it makes the same eliminations?
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I haven't studied up on all fin variations to know for sure. I think you are right, tho. Ted saw it in four rows/columns where I saw it in two columns. |
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keith
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3355
Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:52 am Post subject: |
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| storm_norm wrote: | | Quote: | Is the same true of finned fish? Is Ted's finned jellyfish the same as Norm's finned X-wing, in that it makes the same eliminations?
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I haven't studied up on all fin variations to know for sure. I think you are right, tho. Ted saw it in four rows/columns where I saw it in two columns. |
The answer to my question may be yes, or no. I am not thinking of right (or wrong).
But, I do think it is a provocative question: Do finned fish have complements like unfinned fish do?
Keith |
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storm_norm
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1741
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| Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 3:01 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I am not thinking of right (or wrong). |
I meant that I think your suspiciouns are right, that the finned x-wing is actually just part of Ted's finned jellyfish. |
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tlanglet
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 2468
Location: Northern California Foothills
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| Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Keith wrote: | | => Do finned fish have complements? |
I do not have an opinion at this time, but it will be interesting to check for this condition in the future when we find other finned wings.
Ted |
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daj95376
Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 3854
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| Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| keith wrote: | => Do finned fish have complements?
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I use to fish a lot, but I didn't do much with complements. That said, I believe the answer to your question is probably yes as long as you're talking about basic fish.
When a finned basic fish has a complement of the same size, I've noticed that they have the same fin cell. Unfortunately, I have almost no experience with complements of differing size.
Here's Norm's and Ted's complementary fish from my Generic Fish Finder (GFF) program.
| Code: | 2-Fish c28\r68 f 020\200 <> 7 [r8c1]
4-Fish r1357\c1379 f 400\040 <> 7 [r8c1]
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However, the concept of complementary fish gets confusing for me once you go beyond basic fish. There's a finned (Sashimi) Franken X-Wing present for the same elimination. I have no idea how to define a complement for it.
| Code: | 2-Fish c28\r6b7 fF 020\101 <> 7 [r8c1]
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