| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
daj95376
Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 3854
|
 Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:14 pm Post subject: Puzzle NR_065 |
 |
|
| Code: | +-----------------------+
| . . 5 | . 3 . | 4 1 7 |
| . . . | . . 7 | . . 3 |
| 1 . . | . . . | 6 . 5 |
|-------+-------+-------|
| . . . | . . 3 | . . . |
| 2 . . | . 1 . | 3 . . |
| . 3 . | 5 . 9 | 1 . . |
|-------+-------+-------|
| 3 . 8 | . 9 6 | 5 . . |
| 5 . . | . . . | . 6 . |
| 4 6 1 | . . . | . . 9 |
+-----------------------+
|
Play this puzzle online at the Daily Sudoku site |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Marty R.
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 5770
Location: Rochester, NY, USA
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Maybe I made a mistake and got lucky, but all I used was an XYZ-Wing and I'm not even sure it was needed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
storm_norm
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1741
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Marty,
maybe you can post the grid and your xyz-wing?
my path condensed version
x
kite
xyz
xy
x
Bug |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
keith
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3355
Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Marty R. wrote: | | Maybe I made a mistake and got lucky, but all I used was an XYZ-Wing and I'm not even sure it was needed. |
Marty,
This is more complicated than that.
Got lucky? Got unlucky? I don't know.
Keith  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
crunched
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 168
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 4:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
Here is the grid left after basics and finding an xyz wing 4-7-8 removing the 4 in r4c4.
| Code: |
+----------+--------------+----------------+
| 9 8 5 | 6 3 2 | 4 1 7 |
| 6 4 2 | 1 5 7 | 89 89 3 |
| 1 7 3 | 9 48 48 | 6 2 5 |
+----------+--------------+----------------+
| 78 1 469 | 278 24678 3 | 2789 5 2468 |
| 2 5 469 | 478 1 48 | 3 4789 468 |
| 78 3 46 | 5 24678 9 | 1 478 2468 |
+----------+--------------+----------------+
| 3 2 8 | 47 9 6 | 5 47 1 |
| 5 9 7 | 3 248 1 | 28 6 248 |
| 4 6 1 | 278 278 5 | 278 3 9 |
+----------+--------------+----------------+
|
Play this puzzle online at the Daily Sudoku site |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
arkietech
Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Posts: 1834
Location: Northwest Arkansas USA
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| crunched wrote: | Here is the grid left after basics and finding an xyz wing 4-7-8 removing the 4 in r4c4.
| Code: |
+----------+--------------+----------------+
| 9 8 5 | 6 3 2 | 4 1 7 |
| 6 4 2 | 1 5 7 | 89 89 3 |
| 1 7 3 | 9 48 48 | 6 2 5 |
+----------+--------------+----------------+
| 78 1 469 | 278 24678 3 | 2789 5 2468 |
| 2 5 469 | 478 1 48 | 3 4789 468 |
| 78 3 46 | 5 24678 9 | 1 478 2468 |
+----------+--------------+----------------+
| 3 2 8 | 47 9 6 | 5 47 1 |
| 5 9 7 | 3 248 1 | 28 6 248 |
| 4 6 1 | 278 278 5 | 278 3 9 |
+----------+--------------+----------------+
|
Play this puzzle online at the Daily Sudoku site |
I don't see a 4 in r4c4? I see an x-wing that will remove a 4 from r6c8. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
daj95376
Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 3854
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 3:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| arkietech wrote: | | crunched wrote: | Here is the grid left after basics and finding an xyz wing 4-7-8 removing the 4 in r4c4.
|
I don't see a 4 in r4c4? I see an x-wing that will remove a 4 from r6c8. |
It appears that crunched posted the grid after he performed the XYZ-Wing elimination. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
crunched
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 168
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 6:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Keith is correct that my grid shows the result after removing the 4 due to a 4-7-8 xyz (47, 48, 478) wing. I do not see an x wing involving 4s, however. Can you elaborate? I do see an x wing that allows for removal of 7s---see row 5 & 7 which eliminates 3 7s.
| daj95376 wrote: | | arkietech wrote: | | crunched wrote: | Here is the grid left after basics and finding an xyz wing 4-7-8 removing the 4 in r4c4.
|
I don't see a 4 in r4c4? I see an x-wing that will remove a 4 from r6c8. |
It appears that crunched posted the grid after he performed the XYZ-Wing elimination. |
Last edited by crunched on Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Marty R.
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 5770
Location: Rochester, NY, USA
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 6:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | Marty,
maybe you can post the grid and your xyz-wing? |
I wouldn't have an intermediate grid which showed it. I'm assuming I just made a mistake, otherwise someone else would have seen the same solution I had. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
crunched
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 168
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Marty R. wrote: | | Quote: | Marty,
maybe you can post the grid and your xyz-wing? |
I wouldn't have an intermediate grid which showed it. I'm assuming I just made a mistake, otherwise someone else would have seen the same solution I had. |
Here is a grid that shows after the xyz wing removing a 4, and an x wing removing 3 7s. I am stymied at this point. I have stared at this for way too long, with no resolution.
| Code: |
+----------+-------------+----------------+
| 9 8 5 | 6 3 2 | 4 1 7 |
| 6 4 2 | 1 5 7 | 89 89 3 |
| 1 7 3 | 9 48 48 | 6 2 5 |
+----------+-------------+----------------+
| 78 1 469 | 28 24678 3 | 2789 5 2468 |
| 2 5 469 | 47 1 48 | 3 4789 468 |
| 78 3 46 | 5 24678 9 | 1 48 2468 |
+----------+-------------+----------------+
| 3 2 8 | 47 9 6 | 5 47 1 |
| 5 9 7 | 3 248 1 | 28 6 248 |
| 4 6 1 | 28 278 5 | 278 3 9 |
+----------+-------------+----------------+
|
Play this puzzle online at the Daily Sudoku site |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Marty R.
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 5770
Location: Rochester, NY, USA
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 9:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Take a look at an XY-Wing pivoted in r6c8. You'll need a pincer transport. After the eliminations therefrom, look for a W-Wing, which I don't know if it completes it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
keith
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3355
Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| crunched wrote: | | Keith is correct that my grid shows the result after removing the 4 due to a 4-7-8 xyz (47, 48, 478) wing. |
That should be daj, Danny who pointed this out.
Keith |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
crunched
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 168
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
Ummm...yes, it was Danny. My bad. Sorry.
While we are here chatting, could you kindly direct me to a site where I can study pincer transportation?
| keith wrote: | | crunched wrote: | | Keith is correct that my grid shows the result after removing the 4 due to a 4-7-8 xyz (47, 48, 478) wing. |
That should be daj, Danny who pointed this out.
Keith |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
keith
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3355
Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
Crunched,
"Pincer transportation" is actually "coloring" on one (or both) of the pincers. You should search on "sudoku coloring" or "sudoku multicoloring" and you will get the idea. This is pretty fundamental. If you understand this, you will be way ahead in solving these puzzles!
Keith |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Marty R.
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 5770
Location: Rochester, NY, USA
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
Crunched,
I had written something here some time ago, before we used the term "transport."
http://www.dailysudoku.co.uk/sudoku/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2237
| Code: |
+----------+-------------+----------------+
| 9 8 5 | 6 3 2 | 4 1 7 |
| 6 4 2 | 1 5 7 | 89 89 3 |
| 1 7 3 | 9 48 48 | 6 2 5 |
+----------+-------------+----------------+
| 78 1 469 | 28 24678 3 | 2789 5 2468 |
| 2 5 469 | 47 1 48 | 3 4789 468 |
| 78 3 46 | 5 24678 9 | 1 48 2468 |
+----------+-------------+----------------+
| 3 2 8 | 47 9 6 | 5 47 1 |
| 5 9 7 | 3 248 1 | 28 6 248 |
| 4 6 1 | 28 278 5 | 278 3 9 |
+----------+-------------+----------------+
|
Play this puzzle online at the Daily Sudoku site
In the specific case here, the pincers of 7 in r6c1 and r7c8 remove nothing. However, pincer transport or coloring can be used regardless of whether the original pincers remove anything. Note that if r7c8=7, r7c4 is not=7 and r9c5 must be=7. R9c5 is now a pincer and, working with the other pincer in r6c1, takes out the 7 from r6c5. That gets the ball rolling and should lead to a W-Wing.
As Keith mentioned, knowing this technique can be extremely valuable. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
crunched
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 168
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
Voila!
I do now understand pincer transports! I get it. Thanks Keith and Marty.
Marty's 'splaining does indeed explain. I bet that "transportation" will indeed be useful in future puzzles. I shall now try to proceed with the puzzle here, to see if I can solve it with a w-wing or more.
Of course, my next step will be to find a w-wing! The formula for a w-wing, as I understand it is as follows: XY - XZ - XQ - XY, where xz and xq are strong linked, and the XY are pincers on any cell with a Y. So I always look for an A-B-C-D pattern to produce A-D cell pincers.
The grid below is the puzzle here after doing the x-wing transport on the 7 pincers. The 46 cells are strong linked by cells containing 6. A W-Wing!
| Code: |
+---------+-----------+-------------+
| 9 8 5 | 6 3 2 | 4 1 7 |
| 6 4 2 | 1 5 7 | 89 89 3 |
| 1 7 3 | 9 48 48 | 6 2 5 |
+---------+-----------+-------------+
| 8 1 469 | 2 467 3 | 79 5 46 |
| 2 5 469 | 47 1 48 | 3 4789 468 |
| 7 3 46 | 5 468 9 | 1 48 2 |
+---------+-----------+-------------+
| 3 2 8 | 47 9 6 | 5 47 1 |
| 5 9 7 | 3 24 1 | 28 6 48 |
| 4 6 1 | 8 27 5 | 27 3 9 |
+---------+-----------+-------------+
|
Play this puzzle online at the Daily Sudoku site |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
crunched
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 168
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
The W-wing with the 46 cells does it. A 4 is pinched in r4c3, and in r6c8. Thereafter, the cleanup solves the puzzle. Whew, quite a challenge for moi.
In sum, this took an xyz wing, an x-wing, an xy wing (with pincer transport), and a w wing.
| Code: |
+---------+-----------+-------------+
| 9 8 5 | 6 3 2 | 4 1 7 |
| 6 4 2 | 1 5 7 | 89 89 3 |
| 1 7 3 | 9 48 48 | 6 2 5 |
+---------+-----------+-------------+
| 8 1 469 | 2 467 3 | 79 5 46 |
| 2 5 469 | 47 1 48 | 3 4789 468 |
| 7 3 46 | 5 468 9 | 1 48 2 |
+---------+-----------+-------------+
| 3 2 8 | 47 9 6 | 5 47 1 |
| 5 9 7 | 3 24 1 | 28 6 48 |
| 4 6 1 | 8 27 5 | 27 3 9 |
+---------+-----------+-------------+
|
Play this puzzle online at the Daily Sudoku site[/quote] |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
